Welcome back to the Oathbringer reread, where the questions of the hour are morality and just what the heck is going on with Nightblood? And Nightblood means Szeth, and Szeth means Skybreakers, and Skybreakers mean… what the heck is going on up there by the Purelake?
Reminder: we’ll potentially be discussing spoilers for the ENTIRE NOVEL in each reread—if you haven’t read ALL of Oathbringer, best to wait to join us until you’re done.
In this week’s reread we also discuss some things from Warbreaker in the Squires & Sidekicks and Cosmere Connections sections, so if you haven’t read it, best to give those sections a pass.
Chapter Recap
WHO: Szeth
WHERE: The Purelake
WHEN: 1174.2.4.5 (later the same day as Chapter 90)
Szeth arrives at a small town on the north shore of the Purelake along with the rest of the Skybreaker trainees and squires. They are charged with finding and executing a group of escaped prisoners. Szeth finds one and questions him, and based on the answers determines that the administrator of the prison is also at fault. He draws Nightblood and executes the administrator, then Ki takes him as her squire and he swears the Second Ideal.
Beginnings
Title: Water Warm as Blood
Szeth lowered the knife, but that gave the man an opening to twist and pull them both down into the Purelake.
Szeth splashed into water warm as blood.
A: It’s kind of a creepy title, but it’s pretty funny when you realize that it’s just the pleasantly warm Purelake.
Heralds
Nale: Judge, Herald of Justice, patron of Skybreakers, attributes Just & Confident, essence Vapor, soulcasting properties of opaque gas, smoke, fog.
Shalash (Ash): Artist, Herald of Beauty, patron of Lightweavers, attributes Creative & Honest, essence Blood, soulcasting properties of blood, all non-oil liquids.
L: Well, it’s pretty obvious why Nale is here, as this is a Skybreaker-intensive chapter. As for Shalash… she’s mentioned once, but I wonder if she’s actually here because of the executions? Her essence is blood, after all. Maybe there’s some sort of link here to Nightblood, as well…
A: Oooooo. I hadn’t thought of a possible connection between Nightblood and Shalash. I hope that turns out to be true—it’s got all sorts of potential! The only other thing I can come up with for her presence (and I don’t think it works this way) is that Szeth displays some pretty creative thinking when he considers his convict and investigates the prison on the strength of his suspicions.
Icon
Assassin, for a Szeth POV
Epigraph
The most important point I wish to make is that the Unmade are still among us. I realize this will be contentious, as much of the lore surrounding them is intertwined with theology. However, it is clear to me that some of their effects are common in the world — and we simply treat them as we would the manifestations of other spren.
— From Hessi’s Mythica, page 12
A: This one reads really differently if you think about Hessi as a Herald in disguise. (Isilel, you’ve almost got me convinced by now!) If she’s just an ordinary modern scholar, it’s just … scholarly. People should probably worry a little, but there’s not a lot of urgency—not if they’ve been active for thousands of years and are just part of “normality.” If she’s a Herald, though, knowing that increased activity by the Unmade was one of the signs that the barriers of Damnation were weakening, it seems a desperate plea for people to not believe what the Heralds told them (that they won at Aharietiam). Which is of course foundational to their current religious beliefs, and no one wants to believe that. “No, we lied! They aren’t all trapped or destroyed! Their effects now are telling you that a new Desolation is coming!” But of course she couldn’t say that…
Bruised & Broken
“I knew a voice like yours once, sword-nimi.
The whispers?
“No. A single one, in my mind, when I was young. … I hope things go better this time.”
A: Whether from lack of curiosity or lack of understanding, Nightblood doesn’t question this. AHEM. Allow me:
What. The. Damnation. …? Did Szeth have the beginnings of a spren bond, years ago? Was that why he knew the Radiants were returning, and with them presumably the Voidbringers? Was he declared Truthless because of what his spren told him? And if so, what happened to it?
L: This was my immediate thought. That he’d been in the process of bonding a spren early on.
A: Now, I have to point out that “when I was young” doesn’t match very well with being named Truthless at 27 years of age, so perhaps the two aren’t related. Or… perhaps the events of the intervening nine years make his previous life feel like “when I was young.” Either way, this really does sound like a spren bond, and I can’t help wondering what family it belonged to. Would he have been a Skybreaker even back then? Somehow, I think not. Did he do something to destroy the bond, or did the spren change its mind? More questions for Szeth’s book, I suppose.
Squires & Sidekicks
A: Does Nightblood qualify as a Sidekick? He’s so funny—right up until he’s not.
L: I think he does. He’s certainly not a main character, either here or in Warbreaker! So that puts him firmly in the sidekick/foil camp for me anyway.
“Sword-nimi, do you know why you were given to me?”
Because you needed help. I’m good at helping.
A: Oh, yes, indeed. So good at helping!
Honestly, Szeth, I have to be frank. You aren’t good at slaying evil. We haven’t killed anyone while you held me.
A: Okay, I guess I can’t quote everything… but this really made me laugh.
A rushing sound, like a thousand screams.
A wave of power, like the beating of a terrible, stunning wind.
Colors changed around him. They deepened, growing darker and more vibrant. The city nobleman’s cloak became a stunning array of deep oranges and blood reds.
The hair on Szeth’s arms stood on end and his skin spiked with a sudden incredible pain.
DESTROY!
Liquid darkness flowed from the Blade, then melted to smoke as it fell.
A: … And then it’s not funny any more at all, and you remember that Nightblood is nobody’s joke. (I love that colors are affected by Nightblood on Roshar just like they were on Nalthis.) The description, while it could be expected by anyone who’s read Warbreaker, is nonetheless a bit of a stunner. If there’s anyone here who hadn’t read Warbreaker first, was this as shocking as I think it ought to have been? I mean, an absurdly cheerful sword is odd anyway, though not inconceivable since we now know that spren become swords here on Roshar, but this sudden personality change… Wow! And just as suddenly, it changes back.
Hey! The sword said as Szeth sat on a low wall alongside the city. Hey, did you draw me?
“I did, sword-nimi.”
Great job! Did we… did we destroy lots of evil?
“A great and corrupt evil.”
L: Interesting that he seems to lose all sense of everything when he’s drawn. He sort of reminds me of my friend who has seizures… after she has one, she acts like this. She can’t recall what happened during the episode at all.
Wow! I’m impressed. You know, Vivenna never drew me even once? She carried me for a long time too. Maybe a couple of days even?
“And how long have I been carrying you?”
At least an hour, the sword said, satisfied. One, or two, or ten thousand. Something like that.
L: So time moves differently for Nightblood… or at least, he perceives it as such.
A: Apparently Nightblood has very little sense of time; one hour or ten thousand hours are indistinguishable to him. He seems to remember people, but he doesn’t remember the passage of time, nor anything that happens when he’s unsheathed. Which, come to think of it, is probably why he doesn’t remember being used to kill Shashara, and why he keeps thinking she’s still alive.
Flora & Fauna
A: This crazy world with its crazy plants… did you notice how Szeth used the leaves to find his criminal?
L: I really loved that little touch. It makes perfect sense that someone who is used to the behavior would pick up on little things like that!
Places & Peoples
“How did this man know to send for us?” Szeth asked.
“We have been expanding our influence, following the advent of the new storm,” she replied. “The local monarchs have accepted us as a unifying martial force, and have given us legal authority. The city’s high minister wrote to us via spanreed, pleading for help.”
A: I… have a hard time accepting this at face value. They’ve become an acknowledged and accepted force of law in a matter of 75 days or so? Really? I don’t know whether to think the locals are really that pathetic, or the Skybreaker is lying about it all being so recent.
L: I have to wonder if they already had the paperwork lined up for just such an eventuality…
A: Right. Paperwork. They probably did!
It seems odd that the people here would be so open to the return of the Radiants. Without the Vorin Heirocracy to mess with their history, it might not be such a big issue for them, but at the same time, this isn’t all that far from Feverstone Keep, a principal location for the Recreance. I can’t help thinking there’s something fishy here—and it’s not the magic critters in the Purelake.
In light of later events, there’s something else that’s bugging me. Here, we’re seeing that the Skybreakers have a lot of influence over the nearby kingdoms. In Chapter 117, Nale tells Szeth that the Skybreakers will be following the laws of the Singers. In Chapter 122, we’re told that the entire northwest segment of the continent is held by the Voidbringers, including this area. Are those related? Does the Skybreaker influence push these areas toward the Voidbringers? Or does their involvement with those nations push them toward accepting the same rule? Is it correlation, causation, or coincidence?
“If these men are murderers, why were they not executed before?”
“This area is populated by Reshi idealists … They have a strange non-violent attitude, even toward criminals. … Now that the murderers have escaped, mercy is withdrawn. They are to be executed.”
A: Well then. As we see later, “mercy” might not be the right word for this particular prison, or at least not for everyone. Why would the locals suddenly agree to execute all the inmates, as well as the corrupt administrator? Do I detect some influence by a certain group who claims to be interested only in fulfilling law? Does local law allow for the death penalty, and they just don’t like to enforce it, or are the Skybreakers pressuring the leaders into allowing them to administer justice according to their own (i.e. Skybreakers) standard of justice?
“You walk on stone. Why is this? Each Shin I have known calls stone holy, and refuses to set foot on it.”
“It cannot be holy. If it truly were, Master Ki, it would have burned me away long ago.”
A: I wonder if we’ll ever learn the background of this “holy stone” business. I expect that will come in Szeth’s book.
L: I rather like the theory that stone is tied to the Third Sibling, which they worship.
A: I like that idea too—but then I like almost anything that might tie to the Sibling!! Meanwhile, his response is fascinating. It would seem that he considers himself so tainted that anything truly holy would destroy him… but it doesn’t seem to cross his mind that 95% of the population of Roshar walks on stone all the time. Does he really think he’s so much worse than everyone else that holiness should destroy him more than anyone else? It could be, of course.
To be fair, I think he mentioned it a few times in The Way of Kings, at least, that all these pagans were walking on stone without regard to its holiness. But this is the first time he thinks that the stone should destroy him, rather than thinking how awful he (and everyone else) is for walking on it. Huh.
L: Maybe it’s only especially profane for followers of the religion to break it?
A: Could be. After all, you don’t really expect the heathens to know right and wrong!
Weighty Words
“… I won’t be surprised if it takes you mere months before you achieve the Third Ideal.”
Months. No, he would not take months.
A: Heh. Yeah, Szeth is going to blow their “normal” timetable to smithereens. He’ll get to the Third in 22 days.
“I swear to seek justice, to let it guide me, until I find a more perfect Ideal.”
L: Very interesting. A more perfect ideal… like a perfect understanding of ethics/morality? Can any interpretation of ethics be completely correct? An interesting philosophical question indeed…
A: Oddly enough, Nale seems to agree with you. He says later that even laws can’t be perfect, since they are written by people, but he seems to believe that codified law is better than the individual opinion. Which, generally, is quite true. But even laws must be interpreted, and … well, no. I don’t believe anyone (except God) can claim to have a perfectly correct understanding of good and evil.
In this context, though, I suppose it makes for a reasonable Second Ideal. The Radiant Ideals seem to be more “it means what it means to you” than “it means what it means.”
Moral Motivations
A: So there’s a bunch of trivial stuff about the Skybreakers in this chapter, and I’m tucking it in here. Like, when the prison-master tells them to go find the convicts and kill them…
The masters turned to the squires and hopefuls; some of the more eager among them immediately went running toward the water. Several that could Lash took to the sky.
A: Blood-thirsty, much? Okay, we can pretend they’re just eager to see justice served, but seriously, you know they’re all just hoping to bring back dead-body prizes so they can move up the ladder. “Justice” my eye.
L: I can see why they’d be eager to jump right in… I recall an episode of Stan Lee’s reality TV show So You Want to be a Superhero in which he was “testing” people to be superheroes. He told them their mission was to go and change into their superhero outfits, when in reality they passed by a bunch of people who needed help. Most of the “heroes” were too focused on the task and hence didn’t even notice the calls for help around them, which was, of course, the real test. But Alice, you make a good point about the fact that passing this test requires them to kill someone. You’d think that at least some of them would be a little squicked out by this!
A: Or at least they ought to blink at the thought. Some kind of reaction. Have they been trained to believe that the death penalty is the only thing they do? “You only call in the Skybreakers for capital crimes!!”
Anyway, most of them took off at this juncture. Four, besides Szeth, stayed behind to be sure the convicts were guilty and this was a legitimate effort of justice. With that confirmed, two more leave. When told about the local viewpoints and that “mercy is withdrawn” the last two (besides Szeth) are off and running uhh… flying uhh… falling. So at least there are a few who wait to be sure it’s the “right” thing to do, I guess? Except Szeth. This chapter, I like him more than I did last time. He’s beginning to think.
L: It makes sense that it takes him awhile to retrain his mind to think about orders. He’s gotten so used to just doing whatever his master told him that I imagine that he’s rusty at taking the time to think over the morality.
A: Sort of… Sometimes he seemed to think about the morality—or lack thereof!—in what he was doing, but he did it anyway because, as Nightblood says, “magic rock.” Now, he’s taking responsibility for what he thinks, and acting on it. This is, I think, good.
These are Skybreakers, he thought. They wouldn’t knowingly send us after innocents. He could have taken their implied approval at the start. Yet… something bothered him. This was a test, but of what? Was it merely about the speed with which they could dispatch the guilty?
A: Good question, Szeth. Good question. And I’m glad to learn that there is more to it—at the same time I’m irritated that most of the hopefuls and squires don’t seem to have a clue. They’re just off to kill the killers. (Uh-oh. That fits way too well with a certain song… that I will now have stuck in my head… Oz FTW?)
Szeth turned from him to Ki. “Do you have a writ of execution for this man?”
“It is the first we obtained.”
A: So… clearly they intended to execute the prison-master in the end. Apparently they were waiting to see if any of their hopefuls thought beyond “escaped convict” to evaluate the prison itself, and its management. Good, I guess?
L: Yeah, I mean… they know he’s not going anywhere, they’ve got him under tabs, so why not wait and see if any of their hopefuls are quick enough to figure it out?
Cosmere Connections
A: As quoted up in Squires & Sidekicks, Nightblood states that Vivenna never drew it, in all the time she carried it. Of course, we have no way of knowing how long that was; we don’t know whether Nightblood is just thinking of the short time we saw her carrying it in Warbreaker, or whether she carried it for months or years, after that. On a bet, she carried it for a while in the sequel, but it seems probable that she gave it back to Vasher in the end.
Liquid darkness flowed from the Blade, then melted to smoke as it fell. Szeth screamed at the pain in his arm even as he slammed the weapon through the chest of the blubbering nobleman.
Flesh and blood puffed instantly into black smoke. Ordinary Shardblades burned only the eyes, but this sword somehow consumed the entire body. It seemed to sear away even the man’s soul.
L: Whooboy. Now, it’s been awhile since I read Warbreaker, but I don’t remember Nightblood reacting like this during it! Alice, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he just leave bodies like a normal sword did?
A: Hmm. After a bit of a prowl through Warbreaker… Most of the time, no one got farther than pulling him an inch or two out of the scabbard, and many times people died by being stabbed with the sheathed sword. The only time that anyone actually drew Nightblood all the way out of the scabbard was when Vasher was fighting a bunch of Lifeless during the Avalanche. In that case, the end result was pretty close:
Each creature he struck with the blade immediately flashed and became smoke. A single scratch and the bodies dissolved like paper being consumed by an invisible fire, leaving behind only a large stain of blackness in the air.
(Warbreaker p. 621, Kindle edition).
A: He also dissolved a few walls and part of a ceiling with the sword, pretty much the same way—stone puffed away in smoke. I think the big difference is that Nightblood kills and maims whenever the scabbard’s clasp is undone, but there are still dead bodies around. When it’s truly unsheathed, there’s no body left. The odd thing is that Jewels insists Vasher couldn’t have used Nightblood to kill Arsteel, because “there was no blackness to Arsteel’s wounds.” Either it would work differently on a Returned and she knows it, or she has no idea what happens when Nightblood is drawn, because she knows where Arsteel’s body is.
L: Once again, my faulty memory betrays me! I think I must have been thinking of times that people were stabbed with the scabbard. Anyway, this is all pretty terrifying. The thing I find most fascinating is that either Nightblood is actively breaking the law of conservation of mass (matter cannot be created or destroyed) or he’s… sending it somewhere else. Now, I know we’re dealing with Magic here, HOWEVER Sanderson is usually pretty good about couching his magic within the realm of science, so…
A: Hmm. We know that Nightblood destroys in all three Realms at once, but… I’m not sure. Is there enough smoke for an entire body? It’s a lot like Jasnah Soulcasting that big boulder to smoke. That should have created an incredible amount of smoke in order to account for the mass of the boulder. Or the Soulcasters who make stone out of air—it should suck all the air out of the whole warcamp to get enough mass to make a small stone, let alone a big wall. I’m inclined to think that it’s going to/coming from somewhere else, somehow—either that, or the Rule of Cool outweighs the laws of physics.
Slowly, the blackness evaporated from his flesh, the awful pain easing. The skin of his hand, which had already been pale, had been bleached to grey-white.
L: Permanently, or is this temporary? What the heck is going on here? I could see Nightblood consuming Breath if Szeth didn’t have enough Stormlight to feed it, but… Breath wouldn’t leave just part of his skin grey, would it? I’m so confused.
A: Well, after doing a little research, I’m confused too. On the one occasion when Vasher draws Nightblood, he does get black veins growing up his arm, but once he drops the sword, the blackness evaporates. It doesn’t, however, leave any bleaching behind. I don’t have any way to make an educated guess as to whether it’s the difference between Breath and Stormlight, the difference between Nalthis and Roshar, or the difference between a Returned and an ordinary(ish) mortal.
L: My guess would be that Vasher had enough Breaths to keep it from happening (whereas Szeth states that he would need a LOT more Stormlight before trying again), but that still doesn’t answer the question of just what Nightblood was feeding off of, if not Breath or Stormlight… and whether this is permanent!
A: I’m pretty sure it was feeding off a combination of the Stormlight in Szeth’s spheres and Szeth’s life force, but there was no sense in Warbreaker of it pulling color from things. So… yeah, I dunno.
Quality Quotations
“And what is evil, sword-nimi?”
I’m sure you can spot it. You seem smart. If increasingly kind of boring.
* * *
Vivenna used to tell me that cruelty is only for men, as is mercy. Only we can choose one or the other, and beasts cannot.
Well, that’s what we’ve got on the Assassin, the Awakened Sword, and the Skybreakers. Join us in the comments, and be sure to come back next week for Chapters 93, 94, and 95. We’ll rejoin our intrepid Shadesmar Explorers, then jump back in time for a very short but significant scene from Dalinar’s past, and visit with Kaladin briefly.
Alice is gearing up for the beginning of school. Also volleyball. Woot! (This is what happens when you have high school kids, apparently.)
Lyndsey is beginning her run at the Connecticut Renaissance Faire, and as such is preparing to speak in a silly British accent and sleep outdoors every weekend for the next seven weeks. If you’re an aspiring author, a cosplayer, or just like geeky content, follow her work on Facebook or Instagram.
I think the whole “don’t set foot on stone” thing is something left over from when the humans first came to Roshar. It was a way to try to get the humans to remain in Shinovar, where the ground is dirt and grass. Instead of saying “it’s illegal to leave the reservation” they (the native Rosharans) made up a story about walking on stone being blasphemous.
This was the first chapter where I started to like Szeth, largely because he’s seriously considering the justice and implications of his actions. He infuriated me no end in previous books when he knew perfectly well what he was doing was wrong, but insisted he had NO CHOICE and seemed to consider that he was the real victim here when he was killing everyone. This is such an improvement. Also, his interactions with Nightblood are great. Previously, Szeth’s chapters mostly had us stuck inside Szeth’s very peculiar head.
With regard to the ‘single voice’ when he was younger, I interpreted that as meaning Szeth never worried or second-guessed himself when he was younger, but felt quite confident in his own judgement. Now he’s older and wiser he can see that was a rather blind and immature approach to life. I could be wrong about that though.
PLEASE NOTE: There’s a minor addition to the post, in that we’ve decided to take three chapters next week instead of two.
How about a Sherlock-esque novella with Szeth and his companion, Nightblood?
In Warbreaker, when Vasher infiltrates the palace, he tosses Nightblood but knocks out the guy who picks it up before he can do too much damage. Later on, that man bandages his hand in the hopes that no one will notice it’s gone completely gray.
toothlessjoe @1 – Yeah, it makes sense that the prohibition is tied to an early attempt to keep the humans in Shinovar, but I’m always curious about origins. Was the idea that stone is holy something cooked up deliberately upon their arrival? Was it a superstition that grew up over time? Was it a tradition turned religion among those who stayed in Shinovar as a way of feeling superior to those who left? Was it a later deliberate declaration by the Stone Shamanate so that they would be the only ones who were “safe” leaving Shinovar? I want to know these things!!
Gillian @2 – I agree that Szeth now, considering the moral implications of his own actions and making his own decisions, is much more likable than the “I’m doing abominable things but I have to do it because the boss told me to!!” version. On the one hand, he was obeying the precepts of his beliefs at risk of both his physical and mental health, and at least he didn’t pretend he was somehow doing good, as some religions would tell you you’re doing when you murder “the other guys.” But at the same time… shouldn’t you be questioning a faith that requires you to obey people who demand that you do evil on their behalf? Well, it will be interesting to see what happens when he returns to Shinovar in his Third-Ideal quest.
Nightblood can form new memories but can’t override the memories formed immediately after his awakening so Shashara will always be alive and friends with Vasher, was recently reading through the annotations for Warbreaker https://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-warbreaker-chapter-fifty-four/
“A: Well then. As we see later, “mercy” might not be the right word for this particular prison, or at least not for everyone. Why would the locals suddenly agree to execute all the inmates, as well as the corrupt administrator? Do I detect some influence by a certain group who claims to be interested only in fulfilling law? Does local law allow for the death penalty, and they just don’t like to enforce it, or are the Skybreakers pressuring the leaders into allowing them to administer justice according to their own (i.e. Skybreakers) standard of justice?”
I read it as straight-forward: a quirk of local law that basically gives everyone a single pass, no matter the crime, but if they violate the terms of their punishment then they get no third chance and are condemned to execution.
I’m really enjoying the comedic possibilities of the article referring to Nightblood as a foil. I mean, it’s really just the one pun but I like it a lot.
Well, if Hessi is a modern Rosharan scholar, then she is so brilliant that she’d better make her way to Urithiru ASAP, because they badly need her help with making sense of all the new info that they have recently obtained.
But what makes me doubt that is that Jasnah has been looking into things that have to do with Radiants, Desolations, the Voidbringers, etc., for 6 years and failed to come to this conclusion. And if it had been just her, it would have been plausible, but her spanreed session with her Veristitalian friends showed that she wasn’t looking alone, but that she had confided in them and they did too. They were completely unsurprised by Nale being around, for instance and identified him for who is before Jasnah provided his picture. And if one knows or suspects that the Heralds never left, then it is not a big leap to conclude the same about the Unmade. But if one doesn’t? I don’t see what kind of sources unavailable to Jasnah, who had been looking high and low, Hessi would have needed to have access to, in order to figure it out.
Szeth’s “single voice” – yes, I too think that it was a Nahel spren in the preliminary stages of bonding. It doesn’t seem like Szeth swore even the First Ideal at that time, though, since he didn’t mentally comment on it when swearing in this chapter or when he was told about the Ideals. OTOH, Syl talked with Kaladin quite a bit pre-First Ideal too. I think that the bond dissolved when Szeth accepted the Stone Shaman’s judgement of him as Truthless or when he began committing crimes under the direction of his masters – his thoughts in WoK suggest that he had been ordered to murder before Gavilar. And I don’t have any evidence for it, but for some reason I think that he may have been bonding a Truthwatcher spren. It would be deliciously ironic, if so. I don’t think that it could have been a Highspren, because they seem to have bought Nale’s cool-aid and are the most rigidly disciplined among the Radiant spren.
Nightblood is as charming, entertaining and crazy dangerous as always. And there are clear signs that it is evolving, lack of time-sense not-withstanding. Sanderson did say that Vasher always underestimated Nightblood’s potential in that regard. Concerning Vivenna, I somehow got an impression that she carried Nighblood for quite an extended period of time and then something happened to cause Vasher to “steal” it back. But we’ll discuss it when she explains her motives for coming to Kholinar in a future chapter.
And we saw the other side of the easy-going, fun-loving Reshi. Sigh.
The Skybreakers are very interesting. It doesn’t surprise me that they value willingness to kill for the cause highly – given that elimination of the other budding Radiants is the main reason for their Order’s continued existence in the mind of their immortal leader. Also, all of the other acolytes and squires are young and undoubtedly too awed by the organization and it’s legendary boss to question things too much. OTOH, it is a very hopeful sign that master Ki appreciates Szeth’s ability to think for himself. It doesn’t look like they try to actively suppress it in their recruits.
Judging by how Nale did things during his attempt at Lift, I have gotten an impression that the full Skybreakers were already well-embedded in the lawkeeper systems of the surrounding countries, with special commissions and possibly even personal connections. When they revealed themselves they just admitted being Radiants, but they were known and trusted before that. Which only shows how lethally dangerous they could be if they do indeed all side with the Fused. All the Fused would need to do is to “pass” a law outlawing surge-binding by humans on the pain of death and the Skybreakers would be free to hunt and kill budding Radiants everywhere.
“Some people lived in the lake, of course, but sane society avoided that.” You had to remind me about people living the way I wish I could. Storm you, Szeth. Go storm yourself. :-p
The chapter title serves as a reminder that Szeth is has spent quite a lot of time around other people who extravagantly bled as he killed them, though I’ve also seen water be described as blood-warm by non-murderers.
Szeth is trying hard to bexome a more decent person, but Nightblood is really not heloing with that. Grumble. I would greatly like to know what “nimi” means.
Interesting that the Shin fit Heralds into their naming convention by deeming them sons and daughters of “God.”
Another use of “beefy.” Grumble. Yeah, yeah, imperfect Roshar-to-Earth translation. It still takes me out of the story a bit.
I always considered this to be the scariest part of Nightblood:
@11 I always took -nimi as another world for spirit, and it comes off as very Japanese. I can’t remember, has Szeth called the spren spren before? because it could be his people’s word for spren.
As for this chapter and Szeth, I honestly didn’t mind his previous incarnation as hatehimself incarnate, because I don’t mind the narrative of his self hatred, as it does show he feels guilt about his crimes. I also don’t min d that he didn’t die, because I always feel death is too easy a solution, maybe its my years from comic books, but death as a punishment means they can escape, especially if they wish to die, like szeth does.having him alive gives him a chance to grow as a character, as proven here.
Wetlandernw @6:
Judging by the fact that the Shin participated in Aharietam and continued to become Radiants until the Recreance, I’d peg the prohibition against walking on stone and the low station of warriors as more recent developments. In fact, IMHO they are the consequences of the Shin invasions. The intriguing detail about them is that Sanderson recently admitted in a WoB that the Honorblades were used during those.
Honestly, I have zero sympathy for Szeth’s acts as a Truthless because according to himself he committed them for the entirely selfish reason of being too afraid of oblivion after death to simply stop. Instead he murdered all these people to secure an afterlife of eternal torment for himself?!! Ugh..
Steven Hedge@14:
My problem is with all the contrivances necessary to keep Szeth alive and around. Like, how did Nale know where he would fall? How did Szeth’s selfish fear for his afterlife transform into his following a code for the sake of honor? Why wouldn’t any number of aggrieved people insist on his execution? And failing that why wouldn’t him joining Dalinar not become a huge PR disaster and the final nail in the coffin of anti-Odium coalition? Etc.
Growing as characters is also something that Szeth robbed his victims of, so it feels fundamentally unjust to me that he is afforded this chance.
Isilel @@@@@ 14 – Oh, good point! I keep forgetting about the Shin invasion. Maybe after that failed, a different faction took advantage of the loss to push the idea about stone being holy, and that’s why they failed. Those bad, bad warriors, who don’t know any better. tsk tsk. :D I like that! And of course, there’s no reason that it could have already been a tradition nearly lost in time, resurrected for the purpose of claiming authority.
“It cannot be holy. If it truly were, Master Ki, it would have burned me away long ago.”
I actually took this as a crisis of faith. He’d believed that stone was sacred and would burn away the unworthy who walked on it. It hasn’t burned him, or any of the “pagans”, so the belief must be a lie. He’s still waking up to the knowledge that a lot of the things he believed in are either just false or not what he thinks they are.
Did the reference to mercy in the quote about the Reshi idealists refer to the Reshi Idealists themselves permitting the murder of the escaped prisoners (since they escaped) or the prison officials who would honor the Reshi idealists’ belief that prisoners should not be killed no matter what their crime; but that once they escaped jail, they are subject to death. I think it has to be the latter. I could not see the ideal of the One and the Reshi belief in non-violence agreeing to any justification for somebody’s death. One of the few characters we met who held that belief (Evi) would never had agreed that somebody deserved to die. IMO, she would not have said that if a violent prisoner escaped, then he/she could now be killed.
About a week or so ago, Marvel announced that in one of their upcoming movies (the Eternals), the Black Knight would appear as a character. In some of his comic adventures, he uses a sword called the Ebony Blade. It appears that Brandon incorporated a lot of the Ebony Blade’s characteristics into Nightbloodm specifically, and other Shardblades generally. The Ebony Blade can cut through almost any physical substance (except adamantium – which in the Marvel Universe, for those who are not familiar with Marvel comics/movies, is an almost indestructible metal alloy. It is the strongest metal in the Marvel Universe. The Ebony Blade can cut through mystical barriers. It can also be bonded to its wielder in such a way the wielder can summon it back to him/herself.
On the negative side, the Ebony Blade is afflicted with a curse that makes the person who uses it more and more crazy over time. Sometimes the Blade subtly compelled its wielder to do things or go places that were tied to the sword’s prior wielders.
Wetlandernw @6. I thought the Skybreaker quest was the 4th Ideal (I do not have OB with me as I type this comment; I may be wrong). I think the third Ideal is to follow something/someone. Szeth chooses to follow Dalinar for his Third Ideal.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
great reading, thank![.](//s04.flagcounter.com/mini/Jkzv/bg_FFFFFF/txt_DEDEDE/border_FFFFFF/flags_0/.jpg" width="1"/>)
Eh, I see his fear of a afterlife as a superstion grown by his culture, and I honestly don’t hate groups of people for their cultures in ficition. I am one of the few who don’t hate the Seanchean in WoT. I also see his searching for honor as proof that he realizes his previous belief was incredibly wrong, and now he’s trying to re find himself. now for the people wanting to go after Szeth, well i’m hoping Brandon brings it up, that it is a problem. however, I have a feeling there will be a twist. the Azish might not want revenge because of the way their society is, the emperor is dead, they have a new one, and dalinar’s crew can write up a pardon that will satisfy them. Anyone of power in Jah Kaved is dead, and is ruled by Tavagrian, who will want to silence szeth for other reasons (which is why he told dalniar that he set szeth out.) the only ones who will want vengeance will be the high princes, and even they are fickle.
Walking on stone was probably dangerous when it could be turned into stone monsters by spren.
Breath magic uses up color. Vasher usually has colorful cloths ready, but Szeth doesn’t know about that precaution. Nightblood just takes the closest color he can find.
-nimi is like the name suffixes common in Japanese (e.g. -san/-sama/-chan, -kun, -dono).
Regarding the “cool” vs. “physics” argument: with all the qunatum machanics research aren’t they learning that what we thought were “laws” may not be true at a lower level? Certainly Nightblood must be a quantum sword.
About the grey/white hand: don’t people cut but not killed by a Shardlade have the wounded body part turn grey and lifeless?
@11, 13:
Always love your re-reads, this one along with the comments offered me so much juicy tidbits to digest. This is my weekly dose of awesome!
Keep up the wonderful work :)
I started thinking about Sveth being bound (by his societies beliefs) to follow the commands of whoever held his stone and it’s really a nice parallel to a radiant being bound to follow their oaths, with the Spren being the stone in that instance.
Wetlandernw @@@@@ 6 – Agreed. I’m really looking forward to Szeth’s flashback sequence in book 5 to discover exactly how things went down when he was exiled. His return to Shinovar has all sorts of intriguing potential.
@Isilel:
Fortune. He’s a Sliver of Honor.
@goddessimho:
No.
@26 pfft true, I mean, how did he HAPPEN to know the cities where Lift was gonna be in? or even find the other radiants to be, like possibly Tien? I didn’t think of that, but it would make sense seeing that he and his minons show up in places that logically they shouldn’t be, no matter his network.
RE: The Voice in Szeth’s Head
The other option (besides a spren) is that Odium was possibly trying to recruit him. Rayse doesn’t seem one to put all his eggs in one basket named Dalinar.
This is the chapter where I really got interested in Szeth’s back story. What voice did he have? Probably a beginning of Nahel bond (I’d guess he was going to be a windrunner back then, which is why he had that particular honorblade). I kinda wish we were getting his full story in SA4.
There is something fishy about the whole Skybreaker order. Just the type of people they seem to be recruiting (seriously bloodthirsty!!) mixed with their eventual betrayal of the human population at the end of the book. Plus being SO ready to come in and ‘help’ all these different governmental entities. Almost like they (whether they were listening to Nale or not) were preparing for when the desolations returned. They just seem so misguided as an order. Though I’m not sure what to expect otherwise when they’re being led by an insane Herald. We shall see how this processes later I suppose.
Yay for more Nightblood! I love listening to the voice(s) that Michael Kramer does for him in this book. For some reason I keep thinking he is more destructive than he was in Warbreaker, but maybe that’s just my paranoia speaking after reading the discussion of it. I just love the sentient sword as a sidekick for Szeth, they play off each other so well!!
And yes, 3 chapters for next week. That will be an adventure! Thanks ladies!
@Joyspren, I think Nightblood is scarier here not because it has changed, but because it isn’t being controlled by Vasher, who is very good at it after centuries of practice.
I think it was pretty obvious since words of radiance, that Szeth was about to bond with a spren. He only could have known the knights radiant would return, if he would have the ability to surgebind without an honorblade and the only way, the stone shamans could have called him a truthless was, by giving him an honorblade permanently, so they could say the surges came from the sword alone
@29 RogerPavelle
That’s a good point. Or even one of the intelligent Unmade.
@32 Havi
Your theory is interesting, and that would mean they chose Jezrien’s blade with a purpose. That would narrow down the possible. type of spren considerably. Stormfather can bind things, Honorspren can bind things and “fly”, and Highspren “fly”. I think Honorspen are out, because the only rebel in that group was Syl, the Stormfather would have given him visions so that’s unlikely, which leaves Highspren– but that would mean a rebel like Syl or Ivory or Timbre, which seems even more unlikely amongst the Highspren than other Radiant spren. I still like the idea that they made him take the blade to cover any signs of Radiancy, though.
I picture “-nimi” as the Rosharan version of the “-dono” honorific, and that, to me, gives Szeth a very samurai-ish/ronin-ish vibe.
I feel like the TWoK/WoR Szeth is actually a very sympathetic character. He is faithful to his beliefs, which tell him that the elders are always right, and so when the elders call him Truthless, he does not question it. He believes the elders to be honorable, and so his own honor demands that he accept the punishment they give him. He doesn’t use the punishment as an excuse, but instead still feels the weight of his actions. He doesn’t know that he’s being lied to, by the elders and later by Taravangian. In a sense, he’s being gaslit.
It’s not until he has a crisis of faith at the end of WoR (and comes back from being mostly dead), that he is even able to start questioning his beliefs. Having someone to talk to probably helps, even if that someone is Nightblood.
Nightblood is like what, a few centuries old by now? It makes sense to me that sword nimi is much more powerful than it’s incarnation in Warbreaker. Yep, totally cute and funny and innocent until it isn’t. That sums up Nightblood to a tee.
I don’t really know how to feel about Szeth other than that I like him more now that he’s finding responsibility than when he bowed to the oathstone. Considering what refusing responsibility means on current day Roshar, it should be a comfort. If you must have an Assassin-in-White, better for him to be on your team, huh?
EvilMonkey @35. Remember. A major reason that Szeth was so deadly when he was the Assassin in White was that those he killed could not Investiture. He had less success when he came up against Kaladin when Kaladin had said his third Oath. I think that if their were KRs guarding hi s intended victims, he would not been as successful.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
@Andrew
He went up against Kaladin as an insane, disillusioned, halfway wishing for death mess of a person, holding an honorblade that was in many ways inferior to Kaladin’s Sylblade. Even then it took everything Kal had to win out against him. He has lost none of the skills that made him so deadly and now he’s in a better state of mind to employ those skills. A rematch between the two of them at the current point in the story might yield different results, especially since Szeth holds both Nightblood and his yet to be seen highspren blade.
My husband just got done reading Warbreaker (he tore through it) and so now this recap just makes me really want to know more about what was going on with Vivenna and Vasher in the interim! And also has me kind of eager to get my husband into these books, heh.
Someone in the comments quoted from Brandon’s annotations from Warbreaker and I discovered this section:
https://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-warbreaker-chapter-fifty-five/
“Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher’s Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It’s also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn’t get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he’s a good person. It’s not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.”
Does this mean that now that Szeth has survived battle while using Nightblood that he will be immune to its effects going forward? Will Nightblood be able to locate Szeth like an in-world GPS? I feel this opens the door to a lot of theories…
I forget. Who was it who said that each book was a Ketek
@33
we dont know that much about the highspren, we know, that many, if not all, seem to do, what Nale wants, that must not mean, that Spren, who search in other regions for candidates are rogue ones. Since we know, that Kaladin learned the Adhesion surge first, Sykbreakers would start with the Gravitation surge, wich is also shown in oathbringer with the new recruits. Since Nale got his Honorblade back somehow, Jezriens blade would have been the only one, that could cover up the Gravitation surge, if Nale got it back, before Szeth started to bond a spren. That would also further explain, why Szeth is forbidden to give up the honorblade, not just, to not lose this treasure, but also to cover what they had done.
@40
immune to feeling sick, when holding it, not immune to the investiture drain.
@BenW:
I believe you’re thinking of me, but i just said that this book has ketek structure.
Wetlandernw @15:
Indeed. And I also very much suspect that the otherwise unworkable social structure where warriors are considered to be the lowest of the low and accept it, instead of using their power of violence to better their position is enforced by the Stone Shamanate’s ownership of and use of the Honorblades. To which, them being sacred relics, the general prohibition against weapons doesn’t apply, naturally. Just as it presumably doesn’t apply to the snazzy unarmed combat arts that Szeth is so proficient in. OTOH, I could never wrap my mind around the question as to why anybody at all would ever become a warrior in Shinovar. You’d think that they’d have to force people into it, given how despised this occupation is.
Steven Hedge @19:
I loathe the Seanchan in WoT and hate how Jordan decided not to address their “little problem” in any way because he wanted to leave the option for the sequels based in Seanchan open. Sanderson had to respect that. But I have more understanding for them than for Szeth, because they, at least, believed that what they were doing was the right thing. Whereas Szeth knew from the beginning that his murders were entirely wrong and that his culture _also_ saw them as wrong. Yet, he still continued just to avoid oblivion after death.
I also completely disagree with you that Dalinar has any authority to pardon Szeth. He is not the God-Emperor of Roshar (yet?).
The Azish, who are quite dubious about him anyway, have zero reason to ignore their own laws just because he Dalinar them to let a notorious mass-murderer, who assassinated a number of their heads of state(!!!) off. Their culture would make them _less_ likely to tolerate Szeth’s continued existence instead of what you suggest.
Jah-Keved – he is a regicide, his actions kicked off a terrible civil war for which the people hate him, even those who ultimately profited by it have no reason to conspiciously spare a regicide, since something like this would only undermine their own power. Taravangian, as you admitted, would very much like Szeth permanently silenced.
Alethkar-in-exile – Jasnah may grit her teeth and not let the murderer of her beloved father go for logical reasons, but it would make her look weak and invite insubordination. Highprince Roion would want vengeance for his father, too.
Finally, Szeth attaching himself to Dalinar would make many people suspect that he was working for Dalinar from the beginning. Which notion is supported by the fact that Dalinar wouldn’t have been able to achieve what he did if the worthies murdered by Szeth had still been alive. For the many people who see him as a power-hungry tyrant, this would be the irrefutable confirmation of all their fears. And pointing fingers at Taravangian wouldn’t help either, because without the inside knowledge we have it wouldn’t be plausible. Not to mention that he is the one who brought Jah-Keved into anti-Odium coalition, so even if Dalinar and Szeth are believed on this, it would still destroy the coalition.
Szeth attaching himself to Dalinar, should, by all rights, be a catastrophic PR disaster and I can’t see how Sanderson could handle the consequences of both Szeth and the coalition surviving it without it feeling very contrived.
Carl @26:
If Nale was using Fortune to find Szeth, he would have also used it to find budding Radiants, so how did he miss Kaladin and Shallan? And another major contrivance is that Kaladin was right there, yet instead of stalking _him_, Nale bugged of to Tashikk to hunt Stump after healing Szeth. How does it make any sense, given Nale’s goals?! For that matter, if Nale was following Szeth’s “career” so closely, how could he have possibly missed Kaladin after he survived his first run-in with Szeth?! Contrivance upon contrivance to make Szeth’s survival possible at eleventh hour.
Havi @32:
This is a completely original theory, kudos! However, we now know that Szeth trained with the Honorblades and had been given Jezrien’s blade permanently long before he was named Truthless. So, I think that it was another way round – that Szeth being bonded to the blade made it easier for the Stome Shamans to dismiss any proof of him later bonding a spren. Also, since Szeth didn’t even reach the First Ideal back then, his use of surges would have been so minor and unconscious that there wouldn’t have been any need for his spren’s and his blade’s surges to match, IMHO.
@42:
The highspren as a people have accepted Nale’s conviction that the Desolation wouldn’t happen if the Radiants of other Orders don’t trigger it somehow. They have supported his agenda of murdering other budding surge-binders on these grounds. Any highspren who’d be warning humans about an impending Desolation would, therefore, _have_ to be a rogue. And I don’t think that this is in highspren nature. IMHO, YMMV.
@44
Szeth joining the cause really hurts Dalinar’s plans for human unification against Odium, but it can be argued that the coilition in its current form was already shattered by King T and would be pounded into dust once the world takes a gander at his autobiography. He would have had to reforge it anyway so Szeth’s inclusion should make no material difference in the difficulty of Dalinar’s tasks. And unfortunately his current mindset will make it much more difficult in the short run to so. The Blackthorn could shove whatever dictates he liked and make them all swallow it whole. The Bondsmith don’t have that option, at least not if he wants to make things last.
@Isilel:
Notice that their attitude is a slight exaggeration of the Horneater system, where only the youngest sons are theoretically allowed to be warriors.
@44
I remember, that he practiced with all of the blades they had, but i think jezriens blade is given to him permanently when he was banished and its implied by this wob
But i could be wrong, i need to reread oathbringer soon :P
@47 Havi
I think that could just mean that no other Truthless until now has been a holder of an honorblade. The people who hold or train with the honorblades might be a very small group, and Truthless might be uncommon enough that sending someone out with an honorblade would be a very, very rare occurrence.
However, given that there is a clause in his Oathstone vow that demands he never give away his sword, why isn’t there one there that he never use it? I would like to know what the shamans were trying to accomplish by sending a Truthless out with an honorblade. It is as if they wanted him to wreak havoc on the world outside of Shinovar.
@43 So they don’t ALL have it then? Nuts.
I thought it would be interesting if Glys was Sveth’s almost Spren (before Glys was corrupted)
@44 How people react to Sveth being with Dalinar depends on how the various societies on Roshar think of an assassin’s actions as being reflective of their actions or merely an extension of who hired them. Taravangian may be better served by having Sveth be dead but he can’t exactly demand a trial and have Sveth take the stand so he will come up with some excuse for being in favor of Sveth. Alethi being so warlike will probably accept the fact that he was acting as an instrument of the Parshendi in his killing of Gavilar.
I think of Dalinar taking on Sveth as similar to taking on the Elite who shot the arrow at him (name escapes me0
@John,
My fellow actual-first-namer points up another example of this book being a ketek, as something that happens near the beginning (Teleb attacks Dalinar, is recruited, later dies) and near the end (Szeth attacks Dalinar, dies, and is recruited).
@49 BenW
All the books do have the Parts’ names making a ketek.
Speaking of keteks, I never noticed until just now that the chapter arches also have the same structure as keteks (double eye, herald a, herald b, title, herald b, herald a, double eye). I don’t know if it is significant, but it’s cool nonetheless.
Symmetry is a huge thing in the Stormlight Archive. @RogerPavelle, notice that the Double Eye of the Almighty is also more symmetrical than actual human eyes.